Yeah YOU. Did you know that there's an election on Tuesday? That's OK - I forgot too.
A handful of registered Democrats and independents who remember to go to the polls across North Carolina will be selecting the nominee for Commissioner of Labor. But more interestingly (to me, anyway) voters in the newly-created northern district of Orange County will be selecting their first County Commissioner to represent District 2.
Steve Yuhasz and Leo Allison finished the primary with 37% and 27% respectively. Yuhasz' failure to get over 40% qualified Allison to ask for a run-off.
Unfortunately I'm out of town, or I would drive around Hillsborough and parts north this weekend and see what going on. Are people talking about the election? How many people will vote on Tuesday?
The results will come in at: http://results.enr.clarityelections.com/NC/Orange/4609/6585/en/summary.html
More Information:
Issues:
Comments
Ambivalence reigns
I figured that whichever commissioner candidate contacted me in some semi-direct way and made a good pitch would get my vote as well as maybe 25 other votes I'm sure I could drum up. I still don't know if it's even worth my while to vote. You would think that anyone qualified to be a commissioner would have the native intelligence to contact other campaigns in the county and take advantage of the ready-made networks.
Plus it just seems stupid that we don't have instant run-off voting. Where are the ever-whining so-called fiscal conservatives on this?
LOL...I could certainly be
Whoops
I'm supporting Steve Yuhasz
If you are at Hog Day today, stop by and meet either candidate. They both will have booths set up. Personally I think Steve Yuhasz is the right candidate at the right time. As I put it in my endorsement letter published in several papers this week, including today's CH Herald,
"The most pressing issues confronting Orange County concern its fiscal health and the need to diversify the tax base. The commissioners will soon adopt a new comprehensive plan. The next slate of commissioners will establish the guidelines for how Orange County develops over the next 20 years.
Steve Yuhasz's 25 years experience as a land surveyor in Orange County make him uniquely qualified to advise the commissioners on using the plan and its enabling ordinances as tools to guide desired residential and commercial development in a sustainable fashion"
to read the full letter, check out http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A259861
For the OP audience, I'd like to explain more fully why I think Steve's 25 years experience as a surveyor makes him uniquely, and best, qualified to represent District 2.
Over the year’s Steve has represented hundreds of rural families, farmers and small business owners before the County Commissioners in land-use and zoning issues. He’s drafted conservation plans that now preserve many Orange County farms. He’s been a Planning Board member and served on the Economic Development Commission when the Economic Development Districts were designed.
Simply put, Steve has substantial historical and current in-depth knowledge of how the county’s rules and regulation shape the county's growth and conservation efforts. This knowledge can be put to good use now when it is needed to put the new Comprehensive Plan into action.
Allan Rosen
Yuhasz mailer
Yuhasz v Allison on the transfer tax
The Weekly Independent asked the following question on its candidate questionaire to the OC commissioner candidates, "The BOCC voted to put the land transfer tax on the ballot this spring. Do you personally support the land transfer tax as a revenue option for the county? Please explain why or why not."
Allison answered, "The county does need another revenue source. However, I think that it is a personal matter for the voters to decide whether or not to vote in favor of the land transfer tax as that revenue source. The voters need to make their decision based on real facts and not emotion and misinformation. I applaud the commissioners for implementing a voter education process so they can make an informed decision." (see his complete questionnaire at http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A256796)
Yuhasz answered, "I am opposed to the land transfer tax. A tax designed to raise general use funds by taxing only a small proportion of the citizenry is fundamentally unfair. This tax is generally unpopular among the citizens of District 2." (http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A252828)
Allan Rosen
I live in District 2 & voted
as the excitement builds
where do you live Mark
Commissioners serve us all
Let's be realistic
The commissioners are elected in the primaries. Game over.
Unfortunately
can't happen in a partisan election
You're wrong again--twice
#1--President is not included in straight ticket voting, so those only wanting to vote for Obama and no one else can easily do so.
#2--Yuhasz is in no way an "insider" and while Leo is active in the party, he is was not prompted in any way to run by party leaders or activists, even though many of us support him as individuals. I only wish we "insiders" had anywhere near the power Mark gives us.
I voted at Efland at 9:15, I was number 33.
anon comment above was me....
Yuhasz's win was for RURAL Orange County
It was very obvious that Leo Allison was "the establishment's" candidate of choice. When the chairman (Jack Sanders) of the OC Democrat Party openly endorses a candidate in a Democrat Primary by participating in an advertisement in the News of Orange County, that is almost all anyone needs to know. Of course, the usual cast of downtown Hillsborough regulars and Barry Jacobs showed their preference towards Allison as well.
Yuhasz's win is particularly sweet because he was the more conservative of the two candidates and because he will represent RURAL Orange County ... not Chapel Hill or Carrboro or areas outside of District 2 ... as it should be.
Some of you believe that an elected board who shares the same view points and goals make government work best. I couldn't disagree more. Diverse viewpoints provide discourse and thorough discussion that would not occur otherwise. I look forward to nexts year's BOCC meetings.
Actually Dist 2 = all but the SE corner of the County
This link will take you to the County's distric map.
http://www.co.orange.nc.us/OCCLERKS/DistElectMapV5.pdf
maybe someone who knows how can post the map on line
thank you, but keep up with the discussion
Take it easy
North vs. South
succeed - yes
Secede,
You missed the pun allan.
Today is the Day
Democratic Runoff Primary for Labor Commissioner:
Mary Fant Donnan
http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_the_dome/profiles/mary_fant_donnan
versus
John C. Brooks
http://projects.newsobserver.com/under_the_dome/profiles/john_brooks
I was Voter #34 in the
nobody voting here
Four votes per hour at Weaver Dairy
At 12:15, I was voter 23 at the Weaver Dairy precinct. The poll workers are getting lots of reading done and amusing themselves by figuring out their average number of voters per hour.
Mia Burroughs
Slow voting anecdote
Wow
Interesting results
2669 voted in the District 2 runoff, which was a bit more than I expected. That was still only about 1/4 of those who voted in May. Yuhasz beat Allison by 56-44, about 300 votes. (Dislclaimer here: I supported Allison).
Allison won early voting (about 1/4 of all votes) as well as Hillsborough, West Hillsborough, Grady Brown, Patterson and Cheeks. Yuhasz won Efland, Caldwell, Tolars, Cedar Grove, Orange Grove, Coles Store (by one vote), Eno, St. Marys, White Cross and Cameron Park. Carr Store was a tie.
Turnout was (relatively) high in precincts Yuhasz won and low in those Allison won. For example, 203 voted in Caldwell, which Yuhasz won 168-35, almost half his winning margin. In Cedar Grove 125 voted and Yuhasz again won big, 103-22. In Efland, Yuhasz won 97-53. Those three precincts, which were among the four that had turnout of over 10%, provided Yuhasz with 85% of his winning margin. Allison won the other precinct with over 10%, Hillsbourough, by 57-50.
These are just election day and doesn't count early voting, which Allison won 310-238. I would guess most of these votes were from the Town of Hillsborough-area precincts, three of which went of Allison on election day althought the fourth, Cameron Park, went heavily for Yuhasz (120-43). In summary, counting most of early voting as Hillsborough-area, it appears that Allison slightly won this 4-precinct area. Yuhasz slightly won the four "southern" precincts (Coles Store, Orange Grove, White Cross and Patterson).
It was the rural northern Orange precincts that carried Yuhasz: of those 8, Allison won only one (Cheeks) and they tied in Carr Store. Efland, Caldwell, Cedar Grove, Tolars, St. Marys and Eno were the precincts where Yuhasz won the race: his margin in those 6 precints (369) exceeded his overall margin of 303 votes. Again, turnout was generally high in precincts Yuhasz won and low in those Allison won. For example, my home precinct of Efland (which Yuhasz won by 44) had 150 vote on election day, Cheeks (which Allison won by 20) had only 168, even though it has twice as many voters as Efland.
Paul Falduto
Okay, Game Over
count this republican in for instant runoff
Please reconsider your opinion on IRV
it's really a lot more complex, confusing, expensive and time consuming than you know.
Since there is no software to tabulate IRV elections on our equipment, we would have to do it all by hand. The Wake BOE states that it took 6 hours to set up and tabulate a little over 3000 ballots in October 2007. You couldn't start tabulating the 2nd and 3rd choice ballots until you got the 1st column votes certified. We didn't get that done until May 22 - 2.5 weeks after the May 6 election. If you started tabulating (sorting/stacking and counting) the 150,000 Democratic votes in Wake County, it would take you 7.5 weeks to do - finishing up on or about July 16 - 3 weeks from now. And that does not include the time it would take to do an "audit" to make sure you got it right - and that would mean doing the whole tabulation all over again.
If you want some more information about IRV - check out the following websites:
Center for Range Voting http://rangevoting.org/IrvExec.html
Libertarian Reform Caucus http://reformthelp.org/issues/voting/runoff.php
North Carolina Coalition for Verified Voting http://www.ncvoter.net/irv.html
The Problem with Instant Runoff Voting http://minguo.info/election_methods/irv
And also - http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/RCV-IRV/InstantRunoffVotingFlaws.pdf
Chris Telesca
-- Sign the Petition to Restore Election Integrity in NC by opposing IRV http://gopetition.com/petitions/oppose-instant-runoff-voting.html
I agree we need IRV badly
Except for the Durham AL BOE race, where the second-place finisher won (and big, with over 80% of the vote), the other runoffs that I know of (OC BOCC District 2, state Labor Commissioner, one state senate primary, one state rep primary) made no difference as the first-place candidate in May won again. In none of these cases was it close; our own BOCC race was the closest and that was 11% difference. There may have been other local runoffs, but I'm not aware of them. That said, none was a complete blowout, so I don't blame the second-place finishers from requesting runoffs. And since John Brooks requested a runoff, the lege and local races that had a runoff cost very little additional money since every precinct in the state had to conduct a second primary . Spending $3-4 million statewide for one election runoff for an office that shouldn't even be elected, in my opinion, (I won't go there now, in another post perhaps) and one that only about 1% of voters came out for, is ridiculous. We had 5% turnout in Orange, but that was overwhemlingly due to the BOCC race; otherwise we'd have been at about the statewide turnout of 1.8%. That was true in other areas too: almost 9000 voted in Pitt, Lenior and Wayne counties in a state senate Democrat runoff and Durham added close to 8000 more due to their BOE runoff. Those two counties alone accounted for 25% of statewide turnout.
Cary has IRV, we should ask for it for OC and its municipalities too, and also for the state to adopt it for Council of State and state legislature races.
Cary does not have IRV
They only participated in a pilot project that expired this year with no counties participating. The SBOE knew in March 2007 that IRV posed a risk to the May 2008 election. It would be foolish and irresponsible to recommend extending the IRV pilot or even trying it out until you know exactly what the risk was and if it is possible to eliminate it.
-- Sign the Petition to Restore Election Integrity in NC by opposing IRV http://gopetition.com/petitions/oppose-instant-runoff-voting.html
What would be the arguments against it?
Other than ignorance, why would anyone oppose IRV? I'm curious as to why this isn't as easy as falling off a log.
Oppose IRV?
It requires more thought (awareness?) than most voters are likely to have for every race subject to runoff. In the Orange County District 2 race first primary, there were 2700 undervotes (ballots that did not mark any oval for the race). 2700 voters that couldn't decide who their FIRST choice was, much less their second, third or fourth. Given the minimal opportunites for educating voters about the candidates (no countywide radio, the expense of print advertising, the small number of public forums), asking them to make informed choices at that level is just not reasonable.
I agree that the current runoff system needs to be fixed. The runner-up has no incentive NOT to call for a runoff. He knows that the turnout will be a fraction of the first primary, and that a concerted effort among a relatively small group of dedicated supporters MAY negate the choice made by the much larger group of voters in the first primary.
There is a simple solution: Carry the votes from the first primary into the runoff.
Where the vote is close (as in the Durham School Board election- 1400 votes - less than 2% spread) the runnerup might reasonably expect to be able to make up the difference with even a 5% turnout. Where the difference is substantial (e.g. the C of L race) the near impossiblity of overcoming the winner's lead should discourage unnecessary runoffs.
This scheme would appropriately reward the winner of the first primary while still allowing a second chance vote where the outcome of the first primary may not truly reflect the will of the voting electorate. It eliminates the possibility of a small group overturning the choice of a much greater number of voters. It recognizes the difficulty of ranking, with very little information, candidates who may have very similar views and positions. And it requires no change in the way elections are run.
question
How would this proposal stand in a court of law, and can you name anyplace in the US where this is done? The way I see it a voter who votes in the second primary will have their vote counted twice.
I perfer and encourage people who are unsure who to vote for to skip that race.
Actually there is a lawsuit agaist IRV
Wednesday, June 18, 2008
Instant Runoff Voting Not Constitutional says St. Paul MN City Attorney - not obligated to place the proposed IRV charter amendment on ballot
A proposed amendment to require St. Paul to conduct local elections using instant runoff voting is not constitutional, according to John Choi, City Attorney for Saint Paul. The City Council may put the amendment on the ballot but it is not recommended.
At issue is a petition that is deemed to have sufficient signatures on it. Joseph Mansky, the Ramsey County Elections Manager expressed five issue of concern with the petition's substance.
City Attorney Choi answers in a letter today to City Council President Cathy Lantry, some excerpts below:
A group of citizens called the Minnesota Voters Alliance is currently challenging the constitutionality of IRV. They are prepared to take the issue to the US Supreme Court.
IRV has been promoted heavily by Fair Vote in North Carolina, but a recent pilot program had meager participation, ballots were difficult to count, and the pilot program expired. More information about the IRV experiment in North Carolina at the website of the NC Coalition for Verified Voting, NC Voter.
-- Sign the Petition to Restore Election Integrity in NC by opposing IRV http://gopetition.com/petitions/oppose-instant-runoff-voting.html
now that is guaranteed to challenge the dumb voters
How hard could it be to tell voters to list the candidates in order of preference? Sometimes I think we try too hard to visualize stupidity.
Your scheme leaves voters who did not vote for either of the candidates who made the run-off without a vote.
There are many arguments against IRV
In 2006, North Carolina's General Assembly approved a pilot program that allowed communities to test the use of the so-called Instant Runoff Voting (IRV). IRV is a form of ranked-choice voting where voters casting a ballot to rank from one to three choices for each office in races with more than two candidates
The pilot program was supposed to be managed by the NC State Board of Elections, but our legislature didn’t appropriate any extra funding. Several non-profit advocacy groups took advantage of that funding vacuum to “assume” a great deal of responsibility for the IRV pilot program. Two non-profits even paid for an SBOE staffer to travel overseas to observe Scottish ranked choice elections. No one kept track of the value of all that in-kind “volunteer” support.
The political parties were not allowed to participate in the planning of the IRV pilot. Before the elections, Democratic leaders asked for but were not provided with information before the election about how the program would be conducted and evaluated.
Many communities were asked to participate, but most refused outright. 4 voted NO, but only 2 - Cary and Hendersonville – participated in the IRV pilot in 2007. Only one single contest in Cary involving a little more than 3000 votes in 8 precincts went to the instant runoff. That is statistically insignificant compared to 5.8 million voters in 2800 precincts in 548 municipalities in North Carolina’s 100 counties! Supporters claim the pilot was a success, but no counties volunteered to participate in the 2008 pilot.
NC passed some of the nation’s toughest election laws in 2005 after paperless DRE touchscreen voting machines lost thousands of Carteret County votes in the 2004 General Election. Our highly praised and hard-won election laws created tough standards that are key to protecting 5.8 million North Carolina voters from harm caused by uncertified software, counting errors, and unscrupulous vendors.
But now those standards are under attack from IRV that is being misrepresented as election reform. IRV advocates want IRV to be an option for the future, and are asking the General Assembly to extend and expand the IRV pilot. Many of their claims about IRV are simply not true once you look beyond the hype and the sophistry.
IRV does not ensure majority winners in one single election. The winner of our state’s single "instant runoff" contest took office with 1401 votes – less than 50% plus one vote (1512) of the 3022 votes cast. Our state’s current election equipment won’t tabulate IRV ballots, so the IRV ballots had to be tabulated by hand with workarounds that violated state election laws. And one small error in that tabulation cascaded info a recount that was done another day when the public could not observe it. In the 20 IRV elections in San Francisco held since adopting IRV, any elections going into an IRV “runoff” were won with less than a majority.
IRV only saves money if you consider nothing more than a single IRV election being cheaper than two elections (original plus runoff). While runoff elections are very rarely needed, IRV would require new & more expensive programming, additional voter education and training for poll workers and election administrators, and increased ballot printing expenditures. Candidates would need to spend time and money educating voters. We might need to purchase new voting machines. All those costs would have to be paid for even if no races ever required an instant runoff!
Other states have considered and rejected IRV once they researched the high costs of implementation – something our state has yet to estimate. MD estimated costs of $3.08 to $3.52 per registered voter for start-up costs, and 48 cents per voter every subsequent election year. Once you factor the extra costs of implementation and administration of IRV for all our 5.8 million registered voters, NC might need to spend $18 million up front to implement IRV and millions every election year thereafter. Over a 33 year time frame that adds up to an additional $40 million above and beyond the cost of holding rarely needed runoff elections.
IRV supporters claim that we could have avoided the June 24 statewide runoff by using IRV in the May primary. As far back as March 2007 our own State Board of Elections considered IRV too risky to use in the May 2008 primary due to heavy turnout in the Democratic primary and the use of the new Same Day Registration at Early Voting sites. Had NC used IRV in the May 2008, we might have suffered a Florida-style election meltdown.
IRV supporters claim that many people and organizations support IRV, but how many of know both sides of the issue? And how many more oppose IRV in silence?
You won’t hear IRV advocates tell you how hard a hard time they had getting two out of 548 NC municipalities to be IRV guinea pigs. They won’t tell you that 4 municipalities voted not to participate in the IRV pilot once they knew about the risks. What did those 4 know about IRV that the other two didn’t know? Those 4 knew the risks and got public feedback before taking their votes.
-- Sign the Petition to Restore Election Integrity in NC by opposing IRV http://gopetition.com/petitions/oppose-instant-runoff-voting.html
So $55 dollar per vote
So $55 dollar per vote statewide on Tuesday is a good use of taxpayer dollars?
http://www.myspin.com/current_myspin.php
Progressive Pitbill, are you playing with a full deck?
Instead of IRV
How about the person with the most votes wins, with no 40% threshold. Take the labor race, I don't care that Mary Fant Donnan only received 27% of the vote. She won! She beat out three other very good candidates. Why have a do-over?
One man with courage makes a majority.
- Andrew Jackson
Luebke wants instant runoffs
From today's N&O:
http://www.newsobserver.com/print/thursday/city_state/story/1120648.html
Instant Runoff Voting