A foot in the door to Carolina North

When this project came before the CDC as a concept plan in August there were several issues raised. One, of course, was that it is hard to say much about the proposed elevations given that this would be the first building on the site. So you can't really say whether it fits in, or not. But you also can't say whether it will set a tone for the future buildings or, even whether it should. It didn't really address MLK Jr. Blvd in any sort of dramatic or enticing way. Most of the CDC members felt there was too much parking (I'm guessing, based on the nature of an incubator site) that there would be about 1 space per employee. Since this site is very well served by transit during the week and weekday hours, this seems somewhat excessive. The amount of impervious surface (about 70% of that parking) was also bothersome to many. A parking structure could cut down significantly on the proposed impervious surface and still provide a quite sufficient number of spaces. Although the amount of proposed impervious surface would be a slight decrease from that existing now, this should be a wonderful opportunity for the University to really show their stuff in terms of green building, sustainability, environmental protection.

I am very much in favor of the idea of an Innovation Center but the University and Alexandria Real Estate Equities could do a lot more to make this project a truly "Innovative" concept. And I don't buy into the idea that Alexandria will walk if they don't get their way soon. The opportunity to partner with one of the premier research universities in the country is something you don't walk away from that easily. There won't be any shortage of University-based startups to fill that space anytime in the next few years and beyond.

Re: "the University and Alexandria Real Estate Equities could do a lot more to make this project a truly “Innovative” concept."

"Having the Innovation Center and working with Alexandria to market it to potential tenants will put Carolina on the map in many new and exciting ways, Crowell said. “We will become a destination for research scientists and business development concerns around the world who will want to come see it and what's happening within it. What a way to start Carolina North!”

At the risk of stating -- or repeating -- the very obvious: If the Univ. and Alexandria really want to "put Carolina on the map," there's a great opportunity here to make the center truly, and very publicly, innovative, i.e., "green." We are seeing more and more displays, competitions, etc. for creatively environmental architecture -- the DC "Solar Decathlon" and Chicago's "Greenbuild," etc.

Seems that the urgency to get Alexandria to sign and commit is eclipsing quite a few other considerations, not just zoning precedent, elevation, and parking surfaces. Critics of the Council seem to think its job here is to get out of the way and let the University and its suitors pursue courtship (in the middle of the town's living room).

have they figured out how much traffic will be coming off that project yet

ellen,

A traffic impact analysis is not required for a project at the concept plan stage. Assuming about 250 parking spaces I would assume that this would generate another 1500-2000 trips per day on MLK Jr. Blvd.

I'm not sure I understand your concerns on parking George. Are you concerned about the number of parking spaces or the fact that initially the design uses surface parking instead of a deck design?

In design the first consideration should always be the audience for a product--whether that is a new building, a book or a website. In this case, my understanding is that the audience for the Innovation Center is a combination of UNC faculty and external entrepreneurs. I can understand expecting faculty members to use transit between campus offices and the new Innovation Center, but is it realistic to expect visitors to this community (the entrepreneurs) to use transit? If you say yes, then the town needs to make it much easier for those who don't live here to use the system, from finding the park and ride lots to providing more accessible directions from the park and rides to buildings on campus.

Assuming about 250 parking spaces I would assume that this would generate another 1500-2000 trips per day on MLK Jr. Blvd.

trips = parking times 7? Are they taking appointments like a doctor's office would, or is this an office building where people stay the whole day and sometimes leave for lunch? Or maybe it is because UNC banned smoking and some folks will be driving hourly to smoke? :)

Terri,

My answer is yes to both of your first 2 questions. I think the number of spaces is somewhat on the high side but my biggest concern is that 2/3 of the impervious surface is the parking. The University has over the last few years done a great job of minimizing impervious surface on the main campus by use of parking structures. I would hope that they would push their development partner to do the same on this, their first project of CN, in order to set a great example from the outset.

Regarding visitors, no I wouldn't expect visiting venture capitalists or corporate licensing teams to drive to the Eubanks Road park & ride and take the bus in. But certainly students, faculty, and even employees of the startup companies could be encouraged to do so whenever possible. I realize that the nature of this building will necessitate a certain amount of available parking at any time which means the parking can't be drastically reduced. Thus I encourage the University to make an effort, perhaps even an heroic effort, to reduce the parking footprint from the outset.

Mark P,

As someone who has done a startup company like the ones proposed for the innovation center I can assure you that employees come and go during the day. They leave to go to lunch, they leave to go to doctors appointments, they leave to buy supplies (startups are often staffed by self-starters who will just get the part and fix it rather than wait) and they leave to go to meet with collaborators at other universities and other companies. In addition, startup company execs leave to go to the airport or to attend meetings and startup companies are often visited by venture capitalists, potential partners, etc. And, as I noted above, I would expect that many of the parking spots will be occupied by visitors who will be coming and going throughout the day.

So I think my trip estimate is reasonable.

Terri writes:

I can understand expecting faculty members to use transit between campus offices and the new Innovation Center

I can't. This just doesn't seem realistic. Let's say -- just to take one example -- that I'm a faculty member with children between the ages of 0 and 18. Let's say I have to teach a morning class and have a lunch appointment on campus, and I have a 1:30 meeting, scheduled to last 90 minutes, at the Innovation Center at Carolina North. And I need to pick up a child from school at 3:20 and drive her to her violin lesson.

How is it reasonable to expect that I will use public transportation to loop up to Carolina North and back?

I ask this in all seriousness, because there is a decent chance that I, as a faculty member at the law school, will end up at Carolina North -- as will some 700 law students. Is anyone seriously maintaining that it will be viable to run an academic program of that magnitude primarily on access through public transportation?

Eric,

For the example you gave, it would indeed be unreasonable to expect you to use public transportation. But if you were picking up your child at 4:00 or 4:30 it wouldn't necessarily be unreasonable at all. Particularly since we already have pretty good CH Transit service down MLK Jr. Blvd to the main campus. And it is almost certain that the University and/or CHT will set up additional service or even a shuttle between CN and the main campus when the need justifies it.

The problem with using an example like you used is that it is clear-cut, black and white. But reality is more often shades of gray. A plan would most likely be designed to accommodate exceptions such as given by your example. But in my mind, it is very likely that we will provide a very good transit connection between CN and the main campus which will work for MOST faculty and students MOST of the time.

Eric is right, although I certainly would not want to leave my workplace seven or even several times a day.

In the eighties as a Nortel contractor, we tested and marketed new teleconferencing capability which ostensibly would keep people off the road and out of the air. Yuck. I never attended a single satisfying teleconference. Neither did the execs required to conduct them. I did succeed in making the technology appear to work using the magic of video post-production! Too bad that dream never came true.

As a UNC employee in the 70's, I paid a hefty monthly fee to park on campus. Is that still the case? Employees who have to pay for parking at CN might be more inclined to use public transportation. Let me emphasize that the luxury was very pricy at the time.

George, I think you are mistaken in this sense: I am quite confident that MOST people will form their own views of which situations in their lives are black and white, and which are gray, rather than simply accepting the view of a city planner or a university official on that question. And they will vote with their wheels, as it were.

I also remain curious to know whether anyone honestly believes that an academic unit of the size of UNC's law school can be expected to function well in an off-campus location, and retain its attractiveness to students, staff, and faculty, without convenient parking spaces for students, staff, and faculty.

George,

Thanks for sharing your experiences. My friends who have been in software and biotech startups rarely left the building and their supplies were often custom (esp. biotech) and arrived via UPS once per day. 7x seems high for an average, but I see where you are coming from.

M

Eric--my statement referenced the Innovation Center only. Discussion of parking for faculty and students, should the law school move out to CN, I hope would follow a different planning model.

George, Earlier you wrote "Most of the CDC members felt there was too much parking (I'm guessing, based on the nature of an incubator site) that there would be about 1 space per employee." But with your explanation, it seems you are saying that the uniqueness of the Innovation Center cannot realistically use a fixed ratio approach to parking independent of building usage. I hope I'm interpreting correctly. If so, then we are in agreement.

As for using surface parking vs a deck, the University aims for a no-net gain in stormwater with all construction. Since the remainder of the CN plans are not yet in place, I personally believe utilizing the paved area created by the town as the parking area for the Innovation Center (with improved stormwater mitigation) is a better approach than building a deck in the short-term. I think we'll learn a lot about traffic flows and site usage by having the Innovation Center in place that will improve transit and parking designs for the full build out.

Plus, the town will benefit from increased revenues from the beginning so it's in the town's interest for the university to proceed as they would with any other highly lucrative business development.

This discussion highlights again why construction of the Innovation Center before having a more comprehensive plan for CN in place is problematic. Reliable, frequent, and dedicated connection between the "main" campus with CN would seem to be an essential feature of the entire concept.

Question: is 250 parking spaces an explicit part of what's currently known about the IC plan? Or if an estimate, based on what? Square footage?

Terri,

I'm not quite sure whether we're in agreement yet or not but let me try to be a little clearer. I think incubators will have more trips in and out per parking space than just a simple office building so I would encourage minimizing the number of spaces (by effectively encouraging transit use) to accommodate the increased trips from the remaining spaces. I can understand your argument that initially using the existing paved area makes sense but it certainly doesn't set a "tone" for innovation. I remember several of the CDC members said something like "this could be a building anywhere out in the park". Whether the University should have to do better will be up to Council. Whether they should want to do better is something I'm hoping they'll consider.

Priscilla,

I don't have the concept plan with me but my recollection from the August presentation was that the number was around 280, but I may be off a little. I used the 250 figure to be on the low end.

I still think it it will be a while before we see CN or the plans for it. Therefore, the IC is in need of an immediate decision. My question is if the parking standard is consistent with other decisions that have been made for those on the transit corridor, or it the suggested standard unique to this project.

As a building to be filled with "innovative" types, it seems unrealistic to assume that their work schedules will lash up very well with the public transportation schedules.

Does anyone know what the employee-to-parking-space ratio is for the Town Operations Center or for Town Hall?

repeating a previous post:
the value of an unrestricted vehicle access/parking
pass to MLK,Jr./Carolina North will surpass lower-level,
mid-court Dean Dome tickets for the Duke game.

Gerry,

Thanks for posting the update on the STAC (Special Transit Advisory Commission) process. One slight correction: the STAC's recommendation for the technology to service the Durham-Chapel Hill corridor is still officially undecided and could be either CG-BRT (as you mentioned) or light rail. In either case the necessary right of way would be similar and the costs would be somewhat similar (perhaps slightly higher capitalization costs for the rail but lower operating costs). The advantage to the CG-BRT is, of course, flexibility since the buses can leave the fixed guideway to travel on surface streets where and when necessary. I think the Chapel Hill representatives would be comfortable with either technology and might lean toward the CG-BRT but I don't think we've heard the Durham representatives weigh in yet.

One of the parts that was missing from the previous transit plan that had to be put on hold was a connection to the airport. It is important to note that John Brantley of the RDU Airport Authority has now publicly expressed their interest to help build a connection from the airport which would link up with whatever service is used to connect the Raleigh-Durham corridor and would then allow service from CH as well.

What I've missed here, is the traffic impact due to construction. Are there any plans to site materials on the CN campus or are we going to have 100's of concrete trucks and dump trucks and the like negating any positive traffic patterns?
For instance, when Govenors Club was being constucted, they had an onsite concrete factory set up to facilitate those needs and temporary areas set up for fill dirt to be placed and reused later.
Perhaps a temporary railroad spur to bring the heaviest, and bulkiest materials in by train. The last time I checked, rail transport is much more environmentally friendly, than over the road transport. And can said rail connection be used after construction for alternative regional transport?
Considering the scope and size of this entire project, this issue of materials transport hasn't had much, if any, attention.
Like I've said. I probably missed this discussion point. Could someone be so kind as to catch me up on this?

"I ask this in all seriousness, because there is a decent chance that I, as a faculty member at the law school, will end up at Carolina North — as will some 700 law students. Is anyone seriously maintaining that it will be viable to run an academic program of that magnitude primarily on access through public transportation?" -- Eric Muller

Eric, the law school functions quite well now in an
environment of limited parking. Why do you
feel, if an when it is moved to CN, that it won't? Or can't?
Or, philosophically, shouldn't?

Joe,
The law school's parking situation is at best marginal for our existing student body, many of whom commute from significant distances and, when they get beyond their first year, have off-campus jobs and externships and the like to which they commute. In fact, it is only barely sufficient to accommodate current faculty, and is insufficient on a day when the entire faculty (or even most of us) need to be there at the same time.
Why do I feel that limited parking will be more of a disadvantage if the law school moves to Carolina North? Simple -- there is little question in my mind that Carolina North will be seen, by students in an academic program (as distinguished from folks who are *working* at CN in research-type operations) as significantly less desirable than a campus location because of its essentially prohibitive distance from Franklin Street, cultural and social activities, other academic departments, etc. etc. etc. It will be seen -- by a *student* (again, as distinguished from an employee of a research organization sited at CN) -- as "off campus" in a basic way. If we also say to students, "you will be off the Chapel Hill campus, and you'll have to park *off-site* to access that off-campus location," I suspect that we will lose a competitive edge with other law schools with whom we compete for students. (Yes, I know that there are many sunny ways in which we could "spin" the advantages of a CN location. But that's just what they'd be: spin.) That's a bad thing.
Gerry--
The move from Manning to the law school's current location *did* detract from the educational program of the law school in some ways, and continues to isolate those of us on the faculty who wish to cultivate and maintain relationships with faculty and grad students in other departments. The end of the world? Of course not. A negative? Yes.
To be clear: I'm not saying that the law school could not thrive on Carolina North under the right circumstances. But I'm quite confident that one of the key "right circumstances" will be *better* parking arrangements than we currently offer our students, rather than comparable or worse ones.

Eric,
I understand where you are coming from. I spent three years at the law school, during one of which I took a grad school course on campus. I think that moving the law school to CN will certainly isolate it, though there are other universities that also have offsite locations for their law schools (some many miles away). Will there be real transit options, or a 20 minute bus ride to campus? How much forthought will go into the siting? Remains to be seen.
-Gerry

Silly me, I've spent all fall looking at graduate schools on the basis of the quality of the program, how well the faculty's research interests match my own, and the likelihood that I would receive funding to attend. I almost forgot to see which schools would let me drive right up to the door! Just kidding, and I mean that as a good spirited jest, of course. But I like think to I'm not the only one for whom "you don't have to drive, and are provided frequent bus service to downtown" would be an actual selling point, not mere spin.

me too, Jason. I chose Carolina Law based on getting a fellowship. I was offered a teaching assistantship at UConn in Poli Sci at the same time, which I turned down. I never thought about transportation. Of course, I don't always plan ahead. It took me 33 years to finish my Master's degree.

Late response to Eric's comments:

"Let's say — just to take one example — that I'm a faculty member with children between the ages of 0 and 18. Let's say I have to teach a morning class and have a lunch appointment on campus, and I have a 1:30 meeting, scheduled to last 90 minutes, at the Innovation Center at Carolina North. And I need to pick up a child from school at 3:20 and drive her to her violin lesson."

Eric, I understand your concern. But let's just remember that an employee with that kind of schedule is a highly stressed employee, worrying throughout that afternoon meeting about getting their kid late to violin class and not at their most productive while anxiously checking their watch. I've been there and done that myself. It sucks. Forty minutes of peak-hour driving for ten minutes of distracted contact with your child. Quality time? Not so much.

Let's remember that there are a lot of folks without the opportunity to arrange their working schedule around their kids' transportation needs, and that those who can do so are prone to find themselves in a professionally debilitating "mommy track" situation (whatever their gender). There likely are better ways to support that employee in their than giving them easy parking. Like organizing rideshare programs for kids with afterschool commitments, for example - reducing stress on the parent and congestion and carbon emissions on the streets. And maybe, just maybe, developing long-term plans for a public education infrastructure which does not assume extensive private and public vehicle transportation as a given. Hint: the Wake County school system is $2 million short on its transportation budget this year because of the relatively small fuel price increases we've seen in recent months. And we ain't seen nothing yet.

As regards future student enrollment in the law school: I freely admit this is not something I know anything substantive about, but that has never stopped me having an opinion. I'm sure that there are schools in the country that have to rely on quantity of parking provision rather than quality of program and faculty to attract students. I strongly suspect that UNC's Law School is not one of them, and that the overall marginal value of students who would be swayed by such factors is not high.