James Brown Funk Spirit High School

Alex,

I've always thought that it was just as wrong to judge people by the amount of money they HAVE as to judge them by the amount they HAVEN'T. It all depends on what one DOES with one's money.

In the interest of full disclosure--we own a 5 y/o Odyssey mini-van and an 8 y/o Volvo sedan.

And you might be careful dissing trust-fund kids...you never know who might BE a trust fund kid.

melanie

Alex, please! "Badge Engineering" or taking a basic car and polishing it is not just an American thing, it was probably invented here but copied (as many things have been) by our eastern friends, a la honda/acura etc. you get the idea. Toyota and Nissan are in the same game. The mechanicals are all the same, the only difference is leather or cloth seats, other Bling, and of course the price tags. So junky feature selling is not restricted to American car manufacturers. I never could understand the marketing concept, it is shameful so many fall for it.

As an engineer I can tell you that Subaru is no great world eco-citizen either. Quit watching their ads on TV and look into the mother ship that builds the wonderful all wheel drive cars of Subaru. And please, do your homework before you bash American cars- they are not that bad really, just a convenient target, like Walmart. They have a lot of good stuff going on, it just doesn't sell newspapers. Oops. the W word. Sorry!

Melanie- as always I love your comments. You go girl!

I think like Wake County, we should name the new HS after the street it is built on. Kinda wipes out all of the different ego issues.

Good point Mark! That would be a mouthful.

Thanks to Mark Schultz for checking out the voter tally and public sentiment. http://www.chapelhillnews.com/news/story/2857181p-9313041c.html

Pretty funny that one person worried that the name would convey "funky, eclectic" qualities associated with Carrboro when it may actually be illegal for schools to be funky & eclectic. She says she wants "EDUCATION". To her I say, I want "FOOD".

The James Brown Funk Spirit High School -- "I feel good" about that name.

Carrboro High School
Carrboro High School
Good ole CHS
Slide up the field
Slide down the field
[Please fill in the last line with a one-syllable word]

You're right, Mark C., but if you made a little word switch, "High School Road School High" would be the coolest name ever.

d

Any word from the School Board meeting tonight?

My $.02:

* I would be more sympathetic to the name Carrboro High School if the site was closer to downtown Carrboro. But really: it's not in Carrboro proper. Technically, it's within the boundaries of incorporated Carrboro, but so what? Move it across Smith Level Road and it's in Chapel Hill.

* Did you know that this new site, compared to the current "Chapel Hill High School", is almost 2 miles closer to the intersection Columbia and Franklin? Why don't we just rename the old one "Carrboro High School"?

Someone here mentioned something about the national reputation of Carrboro. Folks, Carrboro has no national reputation. Chapel Hill has that. Uniquely. It's a powerful asset, that name.

* And finally: what if more Chapel HIll kids end up attending this school than kids who live in Carrboro? That is a real possibility.

You can 't spell High School with SCH! South Chapel Hill!!

Was anybody there last night? Was the subtext of the naming openly discussed? Why was no decision made?
Roses to Stuckey, Hamilton, Sechrest, and Bedford!
http://www.heraldsun.com/orange/10-679597.html

I have a daughter that is a sophmore at Chapel Hill High. In 2007, she will be a senior. If we stay where we are now, she will be going to Carrboro High School. Does anyone know would she be grandfathered in and continue to be able to go to Chapel Hill High or would she have to go to Carrboro High School.

Let me say on the record-I would love for my daughter to go to Carrboro High School. I'm just curious if we (other parents in the same situation) might have a choice.

Yes, Quite.
John, Since your density doesn't seem to allow for the constructon of irony, I offer the following:

My reference to Subarus has to do with those who ostentatiously exhort their ownership of same as a badge of social probity while selfsame people engage in inflationary real-estate flipping, stock trading and the use of other wealth-superchargers: And as such, may be construed as somewhat hypocrytical. Nonetheless, Subauru products are highly regarded for reliability, quality, and handling.---See Consumer Reports and Road and Track evaluations on the WRX series---They rarely agree, but in this case...
On the other hand, By all standards, the Chevy Tahoe/Suburban/Cadillac Escalade SUV's are sorry examples of GM manufacturing standards: Consumer Reports's reliability index for these vehicles is abysmal, and if one were to step into a Cadillac version, the only difference one would find would be the fake wood on the steering wheel. As well, The build quality and materials is no better than the wretched Cavalier that Town staff finally convinced me to jetisson in our budget a few years back.

Alex

Now, to Melanie,

When did The Rich become a 'protected class' under the civil rights act of 1964? (Plessy v. Ferguson)

Interesting that the notion is put forward that one should 'be careful' about "dissing" 'trust fund' kids: Should I be concerned about being 'rubbed out' by the 'Muffy Mafia"'? Or is that there a more subtle threat involved---As in shut your piehole, lest the 'Trust-funders' may exact some less than pleasant consequence. Eh?

Alex

I think Melanie means that there are some trust fund kids walking around who don't fit your characterization.

My favorite Alex quote on cars was many years back when he said something to the effect that - referring to Chapel Hill High School letting out for the day -there hadn't been that many Mercedes seen going down the road since the fall of Berlin (or something like that). Anyway it was hilarious and he got much undue criticism for it.

Well I can agree with that observation. Most of my son's friends have a much nicer car than I do!

This is a great example of how humor doesn't work online. Alex's sarcasm is understated and frequently missed even when there are visual cues (like the mischievous glint in his eye). So just to clarify, Alex wasn't disssing rich kids. He was dissing the idea of 'branding' a high school name to ensure sufficient 'prestige' with college admission boards. Only in a very wealthy community would either of those issues be seriously put forth as part of a high school naming discussion.

When I went to interview at Duke for graduate school I showed up in my beat-up 1989 Ford Ranger pick-up truck. Boy, talk about contrast! I felt like waving to the kids in their late-model German luxury cars, "Don't mind me, I'm just part of the grounds crew!"

When I got to know my colleagues in the public policy program I discovered that we, as a group, had the rattiest cars, and the business folks at Fuqa had the nicest.

It's all about what's important to you, I guess.

Ruby, "Should matter" and reality are 2 different things. I went to CHHS and my kids will likely be going to that new school on Rock Haven Rd (in another 8 years), and you're going to have to count me in the disgusting group.

There clearly is a *perception* (warranted or not, just or not, etc) that Carrboro is the "wrong side of the tracks" of Chapel Hill. Many people visiting our area from elsewhere say that. I gave some co-workers directions to Crook's Corner a year ago; they missed it heading west on Franklin St. and they still talk about the experience as if I sent them to Baghdad. And those same folks are the ones who won't necessarily know that the same kids and teachers who make CHHS and East great today will make that new school great tomorrow. They'll just scratch their heads and say "Carrboro? Never heard of it. Must be some other hick town in NC".

Personally, I much favor Lee High -- Mrs Lee spoke to our US Government class one time about their experiences here when Howard was mayor, and it was one of those moments you don't forget. I would be EXTREMELY proud if my kids were to go to "Lee High". Not having a building (or road) named after those amazing people means we miss an easy opportunity to explain to our kids who they ARE (why wait until they "were"?) and teach important lessons.

Sounds from the school board like this is a moot conversation, but I hope we view this decision in a broad way rather than just a way to boost Carrboro's self esteem.

James Barrett,

1. Your post is very offensive to the people of Carrboro. I think you should apologize.

2. How would it be more apparent that Lee High School is not in "some hick town in NC" as you put it?

3. Do you really think that the college admissions process is so vapidly cursory that admissions committees look at nothing more than the name of the high school?

Fred Black wrote quite persuasively above: "When I served on an admissions committee, these things were not left to assumption, as we had reams of data on the schools of the applicants. The data showed the GPA and SAT/ACT relationship of a district, school and class, as well as the performance of former admits from the same high school."

"Those same folks are the ones who won't necessarily know that the same kids and teachers who make CHHS and East great today will make that new school great tomorrow. They'll just scratch their heads and say “Carrboro? Never heard of it. Must be some other hick town in NC”.

So what? "How frequent soever may be the examples of existence without thought, it is certainly a state not much to be desired." Samuel Johnson

At first, I really, really thought people were kidding about what name to give the new high school. After reading the newspaper article, and some of the comments on this blog, I see I am out of touch with what people really care about, what gets them angry, what brings them out of their houses in outrage.

Having spent time in Africa as part of the effort to document the atrocities in the Darfur region of the Sudan, horrors that continue to this day, it brings me close to tears from sheer frustration to see intelligent people, people who claim to be otherwise "fully progressive", bicker about the appellation of the very same school they hope will teach their children, among other things, the civic importance of valuing substance over appearance, good will over pettiness, and a sense of what is truly vital in humanity.

I think people are mostly good. And that's why I think this conversation, and most threads like this one, lose perspective because people around here are just so darn smart and so articulate that they forget to look at the bigger picture, and are glad that they are venting in ways that are viscerally satisfying. Like me. Right now.

Here is a copy of an email I just received from Michael McElreath, a teacher at East Chapel Hill High.
_________________________________

Dear Students & Parents,
The School Board has the opportunity NOW to redress a huge mistake made in 1966 (when Lincoln Jr-Sr High was ignominiously closed), and ignored in
1996 (when East opened).

A little context: of the 100+ black high schools in the state before school desegregation, exactly 4 survive as high schools with their old names
today. (One is Hillside in Durham.) The people with political power (school boards, administrators, and parents) in almost every community determined
to remake those old black high schools into (usually) middle or elementary schools. Not infrequently, districts decommissioned the old black schools
altogether, having to admit that their facilities were simply not good enough for white parents and students to accept.

Locally, Lincoln's physical plant was sufficient for it to serve for a few years as a "sixth grade center" for all sixth graders in the district, but
its facilities didn't match up to those at CHHS and Phillips, to which its students were reassigned.

The loss of institutions like Lincoln caused damage to African American community spirit and school involvement that has rarely healed.

The cost to the district of naming the 3rd high school for Lincoln will be exactly $0. I believe that the benefit in terms of restoring severed trust
with the local African American community would be enormous.

If you would like to weigh in on why Lincoln should be part of the 3rd high school's name (Why not "Lincoln-Carrboro" or "Carrboro-Lincoln HS?)
please do so before Jan 19. Send your short notes to board members directly:
stuckey4schools@hotmail.com (Liz Stuckey)
easechrest@aol.com (Ed Sechrest)
lizmcarter@intrex.net (Elizabeth Carter)
mkelley@nyx.net (Mike Kelley)
jamezetta@juno.com (Jamezetta Bedford)
Jean8113@hotmail.com (Jean Hamilton)
phemminger@bellsouth.net (Pam Hemminger)

Yours,
Michael McElreath

J. Michael McElreath, Ph.D., NBCT
History Teacher
East Chapel Hill HS
500 Weaver Dairy Road
Chapel Hill, NC 27514
(919) 969-2482, x. 420
http://echhs.chccs.k12.nc.us/~mmcelreath

(Sorry if this is a bit off topic- see the end for on topic stuff, por favor)

Alex, I now know the real problem here. So, put down your consumer reports and rag car magazines, and no one will get hurt!!! If you are truly interested in automobiles there are much better reads.

Okay- on topic. After reading all the stuff above this post it is obvious there are Carrboro lovahs and Carrboro haytas. All the more reason to name it after the road- let's "go to school" on Wake County- they figured it out a long time ago.

Smith Level High school it is (assuming that is where the new school is going) !!!

The problem with Lincoln High is that Lincoln did not support abolition, and he didn't think blacks would ever be equal to whites. It's all in the context of the times, but I know some African Americans hold this against Lincoln.

Carrboro High School it is-- it's totally legitimate to add CHCCS on the application if you need to...

May I add:
A school by any other name in the CHCCS system would be as gifted; a rose by any other name would smell as sweet...

Re: James Barrett's post: I rest my case.

As to the other matter, Interesting little nerve that I seem to have struck here: Heaven forfend anyone should ever be insulted: Muffy to Biff: "Did you hear that _awful_ thing he said?! Help! Help! I'm being oppressed!" (Yeah, I know I used it before, but it seemed oh-so appropriate here).

Ultimately, my reaction to all this comes from a perspective perhaps best described by the late Josephus Daniels, former publisher of the N&0, in describing his vision for the role of the paper in political discourse: "I advise and enjoin those who direct the paper in the tomorrows never to advocate any cause for personal profit or preferment. I would wish it always to be 'the tocsin' and devote itself to the policies of equality and justice to the underprivileged. If the paper should at any time be the voice of self-interest or become the spokesman of privilege or selfishness it would be untrue to its history. ... I have never regarded the News & Observer as property, but [as] having an unpurchasable soul." I would extend that exhortation to all public institutions.

'nuff said.

Cheers,
Alex

The Baghdad analogy is a careless bit of storytelling compared with "some other hick town in NC," which insults not only Carrboro but the entire state of North Carolina.

As Mark Chilton and Fred Black point out, these are modern times. The school district has proven its excellence; the new high school will benefit statistically, regardless of what it's called. Carrboro High School's excellence will prove itself over time.

Catherine, you are right. There will be no profile for the new school for several years but there will continue to be a district profile. I suspect those at the new school will display the same range of excellence. If an 'A' were an 'A' were an 'A' with any consistency, a lot of what admissions folks have to do to understand transcripts would be unnecessary.

Funny story. I remember a set of twins from North or South Dakota who both applied. One had an A- GPA and the other had a B+. Their SAT scores were both in the1340s. They graduated one and two in a high school graduating class of 12 and did not have any AP courses. Looking at the records caused us all to be curious, until we saw that their non-science and math courses were taught by their Mom and she was one tough grader!

You can make whatever snide characterizations you like, Mark---(Isn't that what you're accusing Mary of doing?--How curious).The quote speaks for itself.

-Alex

Mark, et al - I am indeed sorry to have offended. I have no ill will against Carrboro -- I enjoy many of its amenities (especially the CLASS program at the Rec and Parks department that has taught my son some useful sports skills instead of just focusing on games). There is a lot about truly encouraging a liveable downtown that CH can learn from our neighbors.

But the intent was to point out how perceptions matter. And working with yankees every day has shown me that NC is often misperceived as a backwards place. And Carrboro is often perceived as being the lesser portion of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro school system.

I didn't mean to imply that I agree with either of those perceptions and again I appologize.

James Barrett, nice olive branch but no cigar. Many of us work with yankees (sic) every day and feel quite at home in their presence.

I'm reminded of an old New Yorker cartoon. "Aha! The cancer is caused by the rats themselves!"

Mark Chilton:

I think you misinterpreted my post. And I like Carrboro just fine, and if I lived in Carrboro, I'd be proud of it. Let me try again:

1. As far as I can tell, the new site is a closely linked geographically to Carrboro as the site of present day Chapel Hill High School. Meaning: not very. The fact that it happens to sit on the fringe of incorporated Carrboro doesn't mean anything.

2. Supporters of the Carrboro name should admit: more kids may very well attend from Chapel Hill than Carrboro. Admit it, and say it doesn't bother you.

Two more points:

3. The name doesn't matter to college admissions people.

4. Once the name is decided, I'm sure we'll all live happily with it. And it sounds like it's been decided.

Can you explain your rather hostile remark about Southern Village?

James Barrett- since you are enjoying the amenities of Carrboro, you MUST be annexed. You cannot freeload on them, just look at what happened to the folks north of here.

Assuming you live in Chapel Hill, then Carrboro must annex Chapel Hill immediately, before they go broke providing free services!!!

Mark; thanks for the clarification.

Respectfully, the fact that you may have heard this argument from three people in Southern Village does not support the conclusion you made in your post.

And you didn't address either of my questions, which are legitimate but answerable. If you weren't going to respond to my post, you should have just ignored it.

Mostly, I'm reacting to a set of arguments I read in the C.H. News opinion piece that I found snarky and unpersuasive.

I imagine there are good, sober arguments for the name; I'm just haven't heard them anywhere or seen them in this thread.

And yes, this isn't a Darfur-like issue, but you only get to decide it once.

Thanks...enjoy the name.

WHOA! I immerse myself in Holiday Baking (24 loaves of pumpkin bread and a gross of oatmeal raisin nut cookies and counting) and all HECK breaks loose!

Anita--Thanks--you were close. What I REALLY meant was that some of this areas progressives might be trust-fund kids--(I know of one who is) and that I didn't think Alex would want to put THEIR noses out of joint. He might, unkowningly, be insulting a compatriot.

Alex--no, the rich aren't a "protected class." Nor do I think there is a "Muffy Mafia." I just think one ought not to make gross generalizations based on monetary levels. Y'know, like saying all poor people are lazy.

It's gonna BE Carborro High. I, for one, welcome our hip, happenin', groovy overlords.

melanie

Who is the Scroggs schools named after?

Scroggs

Ha!

Former School Board Chair Mary Scroggs

Mark, An additional lick disguised as an apology renders it invalid as the latter---Too clever by half.

When quoting historical figures, hopefully, one does so with the understanding that they are creatures of their time, and often rife with contradictions. That's what makes them interesting.
One of my favorites, H.L. Mencken, had lots of weird---and occasionally offensive---ideas. Does that render his observations any less apt (or amusing)? I think not. Some believe that Lindbergh's achievements should be excised from recorded history in light of his crypto-fascist leanings. A good idea? Hmm.

One might argue that a key trait of the 'ideologue' is the tendency to dismiss out of hand, any argument or expression by a figure, regardless of it's inherent merit, if any inconsistencies or contradictions with such expressions can be found, regardless of context.

-Alex