Report back

I voted at 8:30 am on Homestead. I was number 175. There were lots of people campaigning out front (I noticed Alex Zaffron supporters, and some others), and there were muffins available (though no one was handing them out.)

When I voted at the General Administration Building the very, very nice ladies inside had to call a higher-up to check that my I.D. (UNC One Card) was kosher. I'm glad it was, because making the circuit on the S-route twice would have been tough.

At any rate, I was in the low 100's in the middle of the afternoon.

I'll be in the newsroom tonight blogging at: http://apps.dailytarheel.com/blogs/orange.php.

At any rate, we're clearing out now to various camps, and whatnot, but I'll be here throughout the night.

Ted Strong
Co-city Editor
Daily Tar Heel

Polls are now closed. Congratulations to everyone--candidates and volunteers--for all their efforts and hard work. The low turnout was expected but it is still disappointing that so many residents takes such little interest in the politics that most directly effect them. Regardless of who wins, I'm thankful to have had the opportunity to meet so many wonderful, caring people. Thank you to all the candidates for their willingness to serve.

Terri

My 4-year-old wants to know why she can't vote too.
We voted in the late afternoon over on West Poplar. We pretty much had the place to ourselves.

Any suggestions on where to get up-to-date results online?

http://www.co.orange.nc.us/elect/Nov2005/summary.htm

NC Election Coverage 2005

As I find links, I'll post them here. Dent on Wake Co. Board of Education runoffs. OrangePolitics.org solicits voter's comments about their experiences....

In regards to Ted's comment: I thought poll workers weren't supposed to be asking folks for IDs?

I think it's because I'm a first time voter down here. They asked for it the first time I voted in my old district too. The little book told them to ask for I.D., they certainly weren't freelancing.

I voted at about 10am in the Lions Club district (W. Poplar station). Katrina's muffins were there, too. I didn't take one (just had a big bowl of cereal). I was the 80-somethingth voter.

It looks like things are just about through. I imagine most OPers are out on the town, so let me be the first to say congratulations to all the victors.

(And if anyone is interested in my personal take, allow me to make a shameless plug for my new blog, the URL of which should appear next to my name when I post this.)

Congratulations, Mark! A brilliantly run campaign.
Cheers,
Alex

Congratulations to all the winners!

We have all won in some way. Thank you, Mark, Alex, Jacquie, Randee, John, Katrina, and Catherine, thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for teaching me so much about the political process. Mine is the immigrant's love of democracy, and to have become a part of that process here in America is the realization of a lifetime dream. Carrboro has voted excellently, and the voters have reason for celebration.

Thank you, to all my supporters, whom I will name on my blog tomorrow, for your time, your effort, and your belief in my vision of Carrboro.

David Marshall

I'd like to thank all of those who voted for me. I am very surprised and cheered by the number of votes I recieved.
I take from this election two lessons.
1-While most voters in Carrboro want to see the town improve it's nonresidental tax base they are not eager to see the face of our downtown transformed into a small city with large commercial buildings next to old mill houses nor do they want to pay for large scale re-development projects downtown
2-Carrboro loves Carrboro and will not elect anyone who sees us as Chapel Hill's "funky neighborhood" and advocates merger or who plays Rovian games with the truth
Carrboro I love you!Thank you
Jacquie

David, congrats to you too for throwing yourself into public life as you have, and running a great campaign.

Could somebody please decode Jacquie Gist's reference to someone who plays "Rovian games with the truth" for me?

Obviously someone is being pretty viciously zinged here -- an oddly ungracious thing to do in a victory message, to be sure -- and I'm curious to know who it is, and why.

Eric,

I'm assuming Jacquie is talking about Katrina, who has been accused multiple times during this campaign of taking liberties with the truth for political purposes.

If that is true, then I don't think I've ever seen a nastier or more petty victory speech.

The treatment that Katrina Ryan has gotten on this blog over the last two or three days has been shameful.

"Try to criciticize ideas instead of people. In other words, play nice!" say the OP guidelines.

We voted at 9am at Mary Scroggs - we were 143 and 144, - not bad for that early in AM.

I am assuming that Orange Politics will post all the results at some point.

Congratulations to all the winners, and thank you to all the wonderful people who did not win this time.

Interesting statistic at Coles Store:
# Carrboro Alderman votes cast: 270
# people voted: 264

Compare to North Carrboro:
# Carrboro Alderman votes cast: 1560
# people voted: 580

Can someone check my math or explain-- Katrina?

Eric:

I'm with you. Is the Board of Aldermen to appoint a new member to fill Mark Chilton's seat? I never did figure that out, but if that's the case, I'm a bit surprised to see one of those aldermen dismissing the fourth-place candidate, who one would think should be the front-runner for any open seat.

Thank you Carrboro! I am honored to serve you as Alderman. Thank you fellow candidates for a lively, competitive race. Thank you, Orange Politics, all the news and media messengers, and forum administrators who sought to engage the candidates in thoughtful public discourse throughout the campaign. And special thanks to my three dozen Randee Runs for Carrboro volunteers, you know who you are, you all were magnificient!

Chris, for what it's worth:

1. The BoA will appoint someone to fill Mark Chilton's seat.

2. Katrina has indicated that she probably (but not necessarily) will not be after that seat.

As you well know, of course, I'm not taking a stance on what anybody's said/done/thought/painted. I'm just trying to put the most up-to-date information I have about what's going on out there.

Jacquie has already drawn one incorrect conclusion from the election.

John Herrera, who has supported 5-story buildings in downtown, garnered 21.3% of the vote while Jacquie Gist took 26.4%.

When an incumbent with over 10 years tenure on the BOA finishes ahead of a 1-term incumbent by a margin of just 5% in a low-turnout election, it's hardly a mandate- it may simply be the name recognition of having been around for some time.

For what it is worth, maybe the 264 total Carrboro Alderman voters in Coles Store is wrong. If you subtract the 152 Orange Co. Coles Store voters from the 264 total, the total Carrboro Alderman voters comes to 112, not 264.

What is also interesting is that in Damascus, there were 71 total Carrboro voters, and 87 votes cast for Carrboro mayor.

Fun with numbers....

The candidates who came out in favor of protection of downtown neighborhoods Ie no 4 or 5 story buildings abutting residential were clearly the big winners in Carrboro. The non-Caryfication of Carrboro's downtown is what really mattered in this years races. Jacquie's, Randee's, and particularly Mark's victories make this obvious. Downtown growth needs to maintain and improve on the current atmosphere that we all love not change it into some idealized version of a small town. We said it during the building heights debate and it is still true now "5 is too high"for almost all of the downtown lots.

While Jacquie and Mark may have a protectionist stance toward growth, Herrara and O'Donnell from their respective positions on BOA and the planning board both favored upward growth. Claiming a mandate on anything when less than 15% of registered voters spoke out, seems a little over the top. Rather than a mandate, I see a mixed message on the issue of growth.

I'm with you on all the attacks on Katrina, Eric. While I didn't support her candidacy, I think she raised some important issues and like all the other unsuccessful candidates contributed to the public dialogue. Continued criticisms of her are ungenerous at best. And Ruby--I do know what the activities are and still feel this way.

Ruby, I made my comment not knowing about the activities, and not caring about them. What is shameful about Jacquie Gist's comment was its timing. It is the most undignified victory statement I've ever seen from an elected official anywhere.

The night of victory is not a moment to sneer at and kick dirt on a vanquished opponent, no matter what the opponent has said or done. It shows horrifically bad judgment--not an attribute often sought or admired in a public official.

When George McGovern lost the presidency to Richard Nixon in 1972, this is what he said to Nixon:

Congratulations on your victory. I hope that in the next four years you will lead us to a time of peace abroad and justice at home. You have my full support in such efforts. With best wishes to you and your gracious wife Pat. Sincerely, George McGovern.

And that was Nixon, for God's sake.

Maybe to people deeply embeded in the intricacies of Carrboro politics and personalities, Jacquie Gist's dig at Katrina Ryan appears well-deserved. I'll certainly be interested to read what you're going to post about the underlying activities; I don't know Katrina Ryan at all and am curious to know what could have triggered such an extraordinary public dig.

But to people who are not deeply embedded in Carrboro politics and personalities -- which is to say, nearly everyone -- Jacquie Gist's post of 11:06 p.m. is just a stunningly graceless smear from an elected official celebrating a victory.

I had no idea McGovern was such a PC wimp. He should have delivered Nixon a swift kick on the way out...

What makes Cary Cary?

Residentially, it's large-lot, single family housing, McMansion style, and policies directed towards minimizing smaller housing units and greater density of housing units.

Commercially, it is large strip-style shopping centers in a sea of parking along continually widening roads, moving towards 6-lane arterials.

Cary's downtown is in its current state, almost entirely 1-story buildings, shorter than most of the buildings in Carrboro's downtown, particularly Carr Mill. It is also, I might add, functionally dead.

In my view, Jacquie's view moves us CLOSER to Cary and further away from the vision for Downtown Carrboro which many, many citizens contributed to a few years back.

Those who have a great idea of how growth should NOT happen have a burden to explain how it SHOULD occur, and WHERE it should occur.

Until that happens, talk of lowering the residential tax burden and increasing affordable housing is nothing but hot air.

Patrick, I am sure that you are absolutely correct and can quote statistics and studies and references all day long to prove that you and the Village Project are spot on about growth and how to best to facilitate it. However, there is apparently a significant political opposition to your vision that needs to be accomodated in this on going process. Telling us that we are just simply wrong headed about changes to the town we live in isn't going to alter our preceptions. Why don't we all try a little constructive engagement for a change and see where that takes us.

Does "constructive engagement" include comparing one's vanquished opponents to Karl Rove?

Just wondering.

James,

I agree with you completely. This whole issue of growth is confusing and in many ways contradictory. For example, both Jacquie and Katrina seem to be rather closely aligned with one another in terms of wanting to stop/slow down growth. However, no one would ever see them as allies since each has an entirely different purpose in mind. Ultimately, the town cannot limit growth. They can make it difficult for it to occur inside town limits, but that pushes development into the rural buffer. And if the suburban areas grow without a clear and enforced plan, then we get donut holes which force the town to pursue annexation. (I'm not an annexee BTW.) As much as I would love to keep the Carrboro of my youth, I just don't think its within our control.

During one of the candidate forums, there was a good deal of discussion about communications and how the town really needs to do a much better job of educating citizens as well as involving more citizens in meaningful discussions about town business. I hope we see some progress on that discussion. In the meantime, I think the Village Project is doing a good job of helping to set up alternatives growth options for the public to discuss.

I think that reference was meant to refer to tactics not individuals and perhaps ought to be viewed as an overstatement at the end of a very very long day. Generally speaking slamming Jacquie was not what I meant by constructive engagement. For those of you who don't know I am Jacquie's husband.

James, yes, I do know that you are Jacquie's husband; I read that on her website. I am not "slamming" your wife; I am commenting on her decision to slam another candidate, at a stunningly inopportune moment.

I don't think that a campaign that publicly heaps election-eve dirt on a vanquished opponent starts off in much of a position to make suggestions about "constructive" engagement.

On the other hand, I do think a heartfelt apology is in order, especially if, as you say, the reference was an overtired overstatement. That would be constructive.

I'm not really buying that. "Tactics, not individuals" -- but it's only Katrina who called Carrboro the "funky neighbor," it's only Katrina who brought up the prospect of merger, and it's certainly not Catherine DeVine or David Marshall who's being accused of "Rovian" tactics.

Still, though I didn't think it was a terribly gracious thing to say, sometimes people just make mistakes. Jacquie has served the community well, typically with civility, for quite a while now; I'm sure we can move on from one comment.

I'm not sure quite why it's such a big deal to me, Ruby.

I think that in these last few days I've sensed a person being ganged up on, and my instincts are to criticize that and to defend the person being targeted.

James Arndt says "The non-Caryfication of Carrboro's downtown". I agree with Patrick, Cary has NO functional downtown, it is all sprawl. That's what killing downtown helps do. Recently, the Cary Town Council tried to make nonconforming uses of all the old businesses downtown (auto shops, etc) so the downtown could be rid of it's last vestige of history (I'm sure they would frame the issue differently than I did, I think they would have said "beautification".)

I always get in trouble when I post, so I'll just offer this one point of fact and step out of the conversation on the Cary-fication of Carrboro:

Cary's old downtown is not dead, functionally or otherwise. Nor is it almost entirely one-story buildings. The intersection of Chatham and Academy in Cary is a surprisingly vibrant area full of local businesses and a somewhat funky vibe. I say "surprisingly" because I had only encountered the _sprawl_ -- its endless series of self-contained developments and strip malls on the outskirts -- of Cary prior to last spring. But we got lost on the way to seeing the Jordan-Matthews High School boys soccer team win the state soccer championship, and we found ourselves in the old part of Cary's downtown on a pretty spring day. And it was kind of cool. I've gone back since.

Cary is, nevertheless, a city of more than 100,000 residents, most of whom live in those subdivisions on the outskirts,and I wonder how many come downtown rather than hitting the malls. (I'd guess a low percentage.) But it isn't true that downtown is functionally dead, nor that the buildings aren't multi-story. (My impression, in the center of old downtown, was that a significant number of the buildings were two-story. I can't think of any five-story buildings, though.) Cary is obviously not the kind of place Carrboro aspires to be, unless the community suddenly decides it wants to be 2,000 percent bigger. But some folks have seen fit to keep the old downtown going, and obviously there are enough people in Cary willing to come downtown.

I don't think there's anything to be concluded from this, except that Cary is not a good standard by which to measure Carrboro. It has its own unique set of circumstances and history. The downtown is not dead, but it's undeniably true that Cary's sprawl is breathtakingly, gobsmackingly extensive, and an object lesson in unsustainable living. I have a hard time believing that building up in Cary would have prevented the sprawl -- you'd have just had some larger buildings downtown. What would have changed things would have been a public committment to prevent sprawl, something Cary's leaders did not have but which Carrboro's leaders do.

By the same token, I don't think it's true that building up in Carrboro's downtown core will cause the "Cary-fication" of Carrboro. Cary's old downtown, with its smallish buildings, is still kind of cool, but it's a very small oasis in the much larger wasteland that is now the town's defining characteristic. Caryfication is sprawl, not urbanization.

Way more than I meant to write.

By the way, Alex Zaffron gave a moving, gracious, forward-thinking and positive concession speech last night I wish more people had heard.

My point is that we do indeed have a highly functional downtown where you can get your car and your teeth fixed buy your groceries, get a prescription filled, purchase the lumber for your back deck and a saw to cut it with, have a will drawn up and imbibe a refreshing malt beverage on the back patio. I met a Carrboro couple while manning the polls on Tuesday who have given up on automobile ownership because they can pretty much have all their material needs met in downtown Carrboro. Now that is what I call a highly functional small town.
What is realistically going to be achieved by building 5 story buildings in our downtown eludes me And don't talk about affordibility issues because the residential in those buildings would be the most expensive real estate in the entire town. Just look at the prices at the new condos on Rosemary. Sorry I have to run off and get ready for the developers auction down at 605 W Main. Cheers

As a Cary resident of eight years (hey, it wasn't my decision), I second what Duncan said. Cary's downtown is actually kind of cool, with some fun shops, but nobody ever goes there; most people don't even think of it as downtown.

OK, OK, I take back SOME of what I said about Cary.

"David, congrats to you too for throwing yourself into public life as you have, and running a great campaign."

Eric, thank you very much. I wanted to run a positive campaign worthy of the best ideals of Carrboro. Your generous remarks, as well as those of Ellie Kinnaird's and others last night, comfort me and encourage me to try, try again. Perhaps next time I will accept campaign contributions. :)

You know from previous communications that I think highly of you and your views. Out of that respect I want to add color to this discussion.

We were all very tired last night. Campaigning is a marathon with an all-out sprint in the end. It is emotionally, physically, and mentally draining. I just woke up an hour ago after 7 hours of sleep and that was the longest sleep I've had in two months. It's brutal, this running for office, a roller-coaster ride that affects everyone close to you.

For some this may seem a small potatoes enterprise, this campaigning for a position on the Board of Aldermen in a town of 17,000 folks. But Carrboro is a municipal leader in North Carolina on a number of issues, and thus the stakes are much higher than usual. Also, as a pilot of 21 years, I can tell you that many of the skills required to fly a small Cessna are needed to fly a 747 jumbo jet. And flying a Cessna is definitely more "hands-on".

Eric, I know you don't know Jacquie and that you can rely only on what you read, but let me assure you that she is one of kindest, most generous persons I know.

It is your contention that her statement was ungracious, that her timing was off and that her arguments of this election's take-aways were not well-founded.

But this one ill-advised statement from her does not detract from her love of Carrboro, which is all-consuming, or her personal kindness to others, or her wisdom in matters municipal. Her moral courage, above all, and willingness to address the most controversial of topics despite their political ramifications, has made her something of a legendary figure in this town, and deservedly so. For 16 years she has fought valiantly for a vision of Carrboro share by many in this town.

One thing is for sure: I will never forget her personal kindness to me and my family.

I'm motivated to write this comment because to see two people who I care about come into conflict is distressing.

I admit that I, too, have failed to keep my feelings about Katrina hidden. The fact that it came out in literary form, or that most people failed to make the connection, does not cure the negativity behind it. In the spirit of transparency, I supply the link.

http://orangepolitics.org/2005/11/political-poetry/#comment-29481

David, I am not calling into question Jacquie Gist's career, character, kindness, or courage.

What I am saying is that she wrote something quite vicious in public about another person at a moment when one would have expected graciousness. If (as I believe, and as others have done here) it is right to point out Alex Zaffron's magnanimous concession comments to Mark Chilton even when he was undoubtedly very, very tired, then it seems equally appropriate to point out Jacquie Gist's nasty ones.

Over in the OP rules on the side of the page, we're advised to "treat[ ] your fellow discussers at least as well as you would treat your neighbor." In this context, wouldn't that suggest that an apology was in order?

For what it's worth, I take no offense at Jacquie's comment. She loves her town, and perceived my criticism of Board decisions and policies as an attack. I just attribute it to physical & emotional fatigue+mother hen instict.

James Carville once told a group of us working for Clinton '92, " If you can't call a guy an *ssh*le one day and work with him the next, you don't belong in politics." And although I personally consider any comparison to Karl Rove more offensive to being called an *ssh*le. It's a campaign, que sera sera.

I haven't won an election since 1992( Richards '94, Bradley '00, and Edwards '04) and last years loss was much tougher than this one, but I've never backed off defending what I believe in.

I still think that Carrboro has signed the death warrant for it's own unique charcter with the annexation. On that Jacquie and I agree, and the Fayetteville election results should be a cautionary tale for those who dabble in hostile annexations. It's just probably a couple of years until the critical mass builds to the tipping point.

The Fayetteville election results show why the annexation was timed the way it was. The alderfolks can protest that they didn't do it on purpose until the end of time--I'm not buying it. The town gets to collect taxes without having to "face the music" for a SERIOUS amouunt of time. My guess, they were hoping that enough folks would have moved, or the sting forgotten, by the time the next election came around.

And I agree with Terri and Eric---I think Katrina got shabby treatment over here...from the moderator as much as anyone else. I guess that's the plus of being the blogmistress!

melanie

James, I agree that there is a disagreement about growth issues in Carrboro. However, I reject the suggestion that those of us who don't share your views about growth haven't been working to develop a constructive dialogue on this issue.

As this discussion has gone on in Carrboro, I feel that I have a pretty good idea of what some slow growth (no growth?) advocates are against, and very little understanding of what they are for. I am genuinely interested in knowing more about those visions of Carrboro that are different from my own, because I don't think we're as far apart as Jacquie's initial comment above suggests.

I don't think Carrboro has much to learn from New York, LA, or Chicago. I do think that Italian hilltowns, which are mostly small settlements on the edge of large rural areas, like Carrboro is, do have some lessons for us that would help us grow while sustaining the core elements of what makes Carrboro what it is today.

As for affordability, I had a good conversation with Mark Chilton about this when he was campaigning door to door, and I believe he understands the dilemmas for those of us renting quite well. It is true that many of the new units in town have been on the higher-priced side, but to say that therefore they don't help in terms of housing affordability ignores the basic law of supply and demand. (and the possibility of more units for OCHLT) Many people want to live downtown. Adding new units there will relieve some of the pressure on the overall market in town and while it's certainly not going to stop runaway increases in property values, it will slow the rate at which the growth in housing costs outpaces the growth in household incomes.

I've shared the list of questions I believe will lead us to a constructive dialogue here before, and I'll do so again. Here they are:

In which locations in town should growth occur? Where should residential growth occur? Where should commercial growth occur? Which neighborhoods should have one, neither, or both? If some areas should have growth and others should not, why?
Which housing types, if added to your neighborhood, would reinforce the things you like about your neighborhood?

Or, since we can see how well annexation went over, and decide we want to talk specifically about infill, here's another- which non-single family detached housing types (rowhomes, Charleston houses, stacked flats?) would reinforce the things you like about your neighborhood, or even beautify your neighborhood?

Patrick, I had lunch yesterday at an outside table at Weaver Street Market, which I think we can agree functions as a sort of town commons. While eating I tried to imagine what the experience would be like with a five story building on the south side of Weaver Street blocking out the wonderful autumn sunshine. It wasn't pretty!
As a point of agreement most everyone I speak with is enamored with the proposed Art Center development. That project has the scope and scale to accomodate five stories as part of the overall development plan in a manner that for example the Andrews Riggsbee Hardware site does not.
It is my contention that only a very few downtown properties are suitable for a building of 4 or 5 stories and that alot of people were misled by the representation that these building could be approved anywhere in the downtown. Just guessing here but I would imagine that the owners of ARH wish that they had never been tempted by the vision of a really big building on their lot. They wasted alot of time and money trying to max out a site that is really not suited to that level of density and now from all outward appearances are content to leave that eyesore abandoned building as our southern gateway to the downtown. I really believe that if that lot had not been included in the build big area and had instead been designated for say a two story maximum we would now have an attractive new structure there.
We need to move ahead on the neighborhood protection zoning and not mislead the development community about the economic possibilities of these smallish downtown lots. That's my two cents for today. I am going to get out and enjoy this beautiful day. James