Transparent as a Glass Bottom Boat

Daniel, just some additional ideas beyond the ones you've outlined---------Sustainable development that includes an affirmative economic development strategy for Chapel Hill: and Chapel Hill Downtown issues, including dealing with chronic vacancies, crime, and public perception.

Two issues - probably interconnected.

1) Long term (20-50 year) outlook. Can we discern from the patterns of the past & present what the future might look like here and what strategies should we be pursuing to ensure a sustainable future?

2) What is the proper relationship of our relatively affluent, educated, and overall blessed community to the rest of the region/state/country/world? Do we have any obligations to those outside our community? Do we just provide for ourselves? To what extent should we share knowledge and resources? Do we feel any obligation to go beyond what our situation demands of us (in terms of meeting basic needs & desires) and provide leadership on sustainability that could benefit the larger society?

I have been trying to think of the best way to word this so please bear with me..
A good community WCHL conversation could be based on the old LBJ saying "the left eats it's young"
In our community where progressives and liberals make up the majority there is an awful lot of bickering and infighting.Why is that? Is it the nature of the left? Is it one of the reasons why it has been so easy for right wing extremists to take over the national agenda?
What do we do about it?
Yes Mark M. I strongly believe that we have an obligation to the larger world outside of our community.We also need to come together to find better ways of countering and stopping the effects of the extreme right before we find ourselves unable to sustain our progressive island.I think that debate and argument is very healthy but sometimes it seems that Roves of the world need do no more then stand aside and watch as the left defeats itself over and over again while arguing the fine points.
So a CHL discussion..Are we really a progressive community and what does that mean at a time when the state and national agenda are set by those with polar opposite goals to our own.
Sorry to ramble
Jacquie

"In our community where progressives and liberals make up the majority there is an awful lot of bickering and infighting.Why is that? Is it the nature of the left?"

I consider this to be very similar to the issues between the radicals and the liberals in the 60s. The radicals were making all the noise, bringing actions to words through protests, a questioning the establishment, while the liberals thought the way to fix things was from the inside....radicals were acting while liberals were listening. Today it is the same issue...progressives act while the liberals are still listening...and nothing is getting solved.

Side note: This morning I was watching a documentary done in 1991 about the 60's, specifically about the Vietnam War. One of the Vietnam Veteran's made an interesting (although incorrect) point...(paraphrasing)...after WWII you couldn't get elected unless you had worn a uniform and served in the war, but after Vietnam you couldn't get elected if you had worn a uniform and served in the war. He went further to say that there will be a time when a Vietnam War era veteran will be elected and most likely they will have sympathized with the anti-war movement. How wrong he was!

Will elucidated well on some of the details of the future vision idea.

I'd add - where will we get our food? Or better - where should it come from?

Please, state in no uncertain terms what you think the issues for this year's talk should be.

What's the more important issue to make progress on in CH/C- providing affordable housing or "perserving neighborhood character?"

Mark, would you like a slab of soylent blue, yellow or green with that homegrown tomato?

In reference to Daniel's initial list of topics, it is not affordable housing vs. workforce housing it is affordable housing AND workforce housing.

One other suggestion: County government is attempting to update its comprehensive plan for the first time since 1981. It is starting with a update of the land use element for the rural watershed districts and may move onto the "urbanizing" districts of within the county's planning jurisdiction next, as well as comprehensvie transportation planning.

In any event, this is a big topic with implicatons all over the spectrum. Any attention this topic could get would be beneficial. However, how to put it into digestable bits for this format will be challenging. And it would be a disservice if the topic/panel was not balanced.

I'd like to second Jacquie's suggestion. During the neighborhood meetings on the OWASA reuse project, the residents were very concerned about the trees in the Pinetum. While the OWASA staff and board members were also concerned about the trees and other botanical aspects of the Pinetum, we also know that the reuse project will have an enormously positive impact on our water supply--also an environmental concern.

At one point, one of the neighbors said something about them being environmentalists--my response was that we are environmentalists too. Since then I have noticed any number of discussions in which both sides are claiming the high road (the progressive/liberal title) when they are really just taking different perspectives within domains of progressive/liberal thought--such as environmentalism. The UNC cogen plant was another of those issues as is the whole topic of growth.

We can value our differences and assume that through open and respectful discussion we can implement policies, understand issues, etc. that reflect the breadth and depth of progressive/liberal values or we can create battle lines. Too often it feels like its battle lines. In the past we've had local media to help us all understand the complexities of issues and the nuances of the different perspectives. I'd love to see CHL use this program to help alleviate some of the stovepipe attitudes that too often results in the "if you're not with us, you're agin us" feelings.

I think there is one topic that crosses all of these topics - transportation.

* safety issues are an obvious concern given our recent events, but there are also safety concerns about the new Dogwood Acres park.

* expanding our business base requires keeping up our infrastructure and making it feasible for people to get to and from these businesses.

* Town-Gown relations are going to focus on parking again as the continued on-campus growth is pushing more and more people off campus for parking.

* Unless things change pretty rapidly in the next few years, cars are going to become very expensive, which means more people wanting public transportation.

* What kind of progressives are we? A strong public transportation system and BIKE LANES should be present throughout North Carolina - will we push for it?

Those are just off the top of my head, but I think it makes clear that transportation issues should be considered en masse, which will effect many other decisions.

Okay, I just said topic twice in a sentence, it's early and I'm trying to find my coffee cup, groan.

Robert,

Your topic about the increased need for public transportation as we continue to grow is an important one. I was at the combined Chapel Hill-Carrboro Transit Forum held last night in CH Council chambers and I would estimate that 2/3 - 3/4 of the citizens who spoke were asking for increased service. Unfortunately, the system is pretty well maxed out right now - both in terms of equipment and operating funds. Thus any increase in service will almost certainly require an increase in taxes to fund it.

Is the public willing to pay more for something that many do not use? Do they understand the benefit to them even if they don't use it (fewer cars on the road, cleaner air)? And will our elected officials have the courage to propose a tax increase to fund increased service going forward?

I will echo what Dan Siler said. We're looking for a diverse group of folks to serve as panelists on all these discussions. It will be 10 hours of conversation about the issues facing our community, and we would like your ideas on the people you think should be a part of it. there are so many folks out there who would be great guests. Give us some names, if you have a moment to respond. And thanks!

George,
I think the increase needs to come from four sources.
1. The state. One time, non-recurring funds to buy some new buses. That should be easy, right : )

3. The town. It's our buses after all.

3. The counties. People from Orange and Alamance are using the transport systems to commute into town.

4. Which leads to, the University. The U is pushing more and more employees off campus. They need to be providing a large percentage of funding because those buses are taking the most passengers, most wear, most tear. In addition, they ferry students all over campus and town.

RP

Robert,

Currently CH contributes 21% of the cost of CHT, UNC contributes 38%, and Carrboro contributes 7%. The remaining comes from state & federal, etc. I would hope that all of the partners would increase their share proportionally. I don't think we can rely very much on additional state & federal help beyond what we're getting now so any increase will have to come from us (i,e., the partners).

George,
It would be nice if the state would chip in for buses, since the system carries several thousand state workers in and out of UNC, not to mention tens of thousands of students.
As more and more UNC parking is pushed off campus, I think they should jack up their share. Charge $20 a year to park off campus and use all the money to subsidize the bus system.

Robert, the students already pay a fee specifically for the bus system. The money paid by students is not some abstract allocation of dollars, but a fee voted on by students every few years in order to keep the buses moving and free. While certainly students are big beneficiaries, I don't think folks always respect that students are the only ones paying directly from their pockets in a democratic process.

Joan,
Does the UNC portion come ONLY from the students?

I think the percentage of spots taken up by UNC employees should be calculated and they should pay that amount.

You know, the Southern Village lot is filled with patients for the hosptial, residents and interns, School of Medicine grad students and postdocs; how about the SoM pay for the NS bus out of their profits? Likewise, the other professional schools. They require our bus, so pay for it.

If you sent every offcampus parker a letter letting them know that buses used to cost $1 a day, and we are asking for $20 a year to have free buses, I think they would understand.

Robert,

We do get some state & federal monies for buses, although it would be nice to get more. Since the state & feds are currently paying about 30% of the CHT budget, it is probably wishful thinking to hope that we might get even more, particularly given the federal cuts in so many other critical programs.

If we want more/better service I think the responsibility falls on us. For a small increase (10%) in our transportation-directed property taxes (about $9.60 for a CH homeowner currently paying $3000 in total property taxes) we could increase our current CHT service by 14,000 hours. That would provide extended service on evenings and weekends and during those times the University isn't in session. You could add 4 hr/day for 6 days/week for 50 weeks to 12 routes. Or you could add 2 hr/day for 6 days/week for 50 weeks to 24 routes. A lot of different possibilities. Assuming the average homeowner has 4 persons in the home, we would get this increase for less than $2.50/person/year. These numbers assume that UNC and Carrboro would also increase their contributions by 10%.

Joan says:
" I don't think folks always respect that students are the only ones paying directly from their pockets in a democratic process."

Actually, Chapel Hill and Carrboro each had referenda on the subject, Chapel Hill voters approving a property tax levy in 1974, Carrboro in 1975 or 1976.

UNC's money comes partly from student fees, partly from parking revenues, partly from overhead receipts.

What about the jaywalking tickets, those could buy a few new buses.

By law money from parking tickets and almost certainly jaywalking tickets at UNC has to be turned over to the K-12 school system. This is the result of litigation spearheaded by the state school boards association that noted the NC Constitution requires "fines and forfeitures" to go to K-12. The state Supreme Court agreed. Until the litigation was filed UNC had been using money from parking-ticket fines to subsidize the bus system. The case blew about a $1 million hole in UNC's parking-services budget (the overall source of the transit subsidy) that they've since made up from other sources, if memory serves.

Ray says:
"The case blew about a $1 million hole in UNC's parking-services budget (the overall source of the transit subsidy) that they've since made up from other sources, if memory serves."

I think they raised the base parking permit and meter rates to cover the hole.